Comments on: Bridging the gap between The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and other Christian churches http://aaronhardy.com/religion/bridging-the-gap-between-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints-and-other-christian-churches/ For all your Aaron Hardy needs. Thu, 17 May 2012 03:52:23 +0000 hourly 1 By: Paul http://aaronhardy.com/religion/bridging-the-gap-between-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints-and-other-christian-churches/comment-page-1/#comment-20266 Paul Sat, 26 Mar 2011 14:46:35 +0000 http://intimateconversations.aaronhardy.com/uncategorized/bridging-the-gap-between-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints-and-other-christian-churches/#comment-20266 And then there is that little phenomenon called Facebook and the founders being roommates at BYU (likely each a Mormon). Yes, the Mormon church is really growing and though some might consider it new that is only a limited perspective since it is new to them personally. Mormonism, and the Church so called, is the same Church that Jesus Christ organized while he lived on earth. That is a key point of Mormonism. Once you bridge that gap you can also bridge the gap that Jesus Christ's teachings and revelations to mankind are still millennia older than that. A note to Guy Morton. I believe that most atheists are atheists because of a false concept of God that they cannot believe in or work their way around. I could not believe in those false concepts of God either. Open your mind to the idea that there might be another concept of God that you have been missing for years and it is the true concept. Joseph Smith met that one. Aaron could tell you about that God. I do not know of any other concept of God who has loved his children enough to provide a way for 100% of them to find him. Carl Sagan's father's last words to Carl as he died were "See you later". Carl, though atheist at the time, somehow believed those prophetic words and has now seen the words fulfilled. He is no longer an atheist today. No, I cannot prove it, but I will meet with you and Carl someday on the other side to discuss it. While we are at it, let's be sure to invite Isaac Asimov as well. He and Carl have probably already shared notes but would enjoy getting us up to speed. I love your Shuffled Row tool Aaron. I love your Church, too. I love the Savior Jesus Christ who spreads his Gospel to the world today through that Church like no other church ever did. Press forward. And then there is that little phenomenon called Facebook and the founders being roommates at BYU (likely each a Mormon).

Yes, the Mormon church is really growing and though some might consider it new that is only a limited perspective since it is new to them personally. Mormonism, and the Church so called, is the same Church that Jesus Christ organized while he lived on earth. That is a key point of Mormonism. Once you bridge that gap you can also bridge the gap that Jesus Christ’s teachings and revelations to mankind are still millennia older than that.

A note to Guy Morton. I believe that most atheists are atheists because of a false concept of God that they cannot believe in or work their way around. I could not believe in those false concepts of God either. Open your mind to the idea that there might be another concept of God that you have been missing for years and it is the true concept. Joseph Smith met that one. Aaron could tell you about that God. I do not know of any other concept of God who has loved his children enough to provide a way for 100% of them to find him. Carl Sagan’s father’s last words to Carl as he died were “See you later”. Carl, though atheist at the time, somehow believed those prophetic words and has now seen the words fulfilled. He is no longer an atheist today. No, I cannot prove it, but I will meet with you and Carl someday on the other side to discuss it. While we are at it, let’s be sure to invite Isaac Asimov as well. He and Carl have probably already shared notes but would enjoy getting us up to speed.

I love your Shuffled Row tool Aaron. I love your Church, too. I love the Savior Jesus Christ who spreads his Gospel to the world today through that Church like no other church ever did. Press forward.

]]> By: lds org advocate http://aaronhardy.com/religion/bridging-the-gap-between-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints-and-other-christian-churches/comment-page-1/#comment-6985 lds org advocate Mon, 26 Jul 2010 14:21:05 +0000 http://intimateconversations.aaronhardy.com/uncategorized/bridging-the-gap-between-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints-and-other-christian-churches/#comment-6985 I love many things about LDS church but one thing that i love the most in their belief is that all are their brothers and sisters and they love others like unto themselves.Here is one of their beliefs as stated in the articles of Faith. Articles of Faith 1:11 We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may. I love many things about LDS church but one thing that i love the most in their belief is that all are their brothers and sisters and they love others like unto themselves.Here is one of their beliefs as stated in the articles of Faith. Articles of Faith 1:11
We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

]]> By: Guy Morton http://aaronhardy.com/religion/bridging-the-gap-between-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints-and-other-christian-churches/comment-page-1/#comment-6011 Guy Morton Wed, 19 May 2010 09:52:08 +0000 http://intimateconversations.aaronhardy.com/uncategorized/bridging-the-gap-between-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints-and-other-christian-churches/#comment-6011 Sorry, of course he didn't keep the plates in a hat, that would have been silly. :-) Guy Sorry, of course he didn’t keep the plates in a hat, that would have been silly. :-)

Guy

]]> By: Aaron Hardy http://aaronhardy.com/religion/bridging-the-gap-between-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints-and-other-christian-churches/comment-page-1/#comment-592 Aaron Hardy Thu, 11 Dec 2008 05:04:46 +0000 http://intimateconversations.aaronhardy.com/uncategorized/bridging-the-gap-between-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints-and-other-christian-churches/#comment-592 "Golden plates in the hat thing," eh? Sounds like you really did your research. Please, enlighten us Mormons. “Golden plates in the hat thing,” eh? Sounds like you really did your research. Please, enlighten us Mormons.

]]> By: Guy Morton http://aaronhardy.com/religion/bridging-the-gap-between-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints-and-other-christian-churches/comment-page-1/#comment-591 Guy Morton Thu, 11 Dec 2008 04:19:57 +0000 http://intimateconversations.aaronhardy.com/uncategorized/bridging-the-gap-between-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints-and-other-christian-churches/#comment-591 You may not welcome input from an atheist here, but surely the fact that various popes (appointed via the workings of the Holy Spirit if we are to believe the Catholilc doctrine) and Joseph Smith (God's prophet, according to the Mormons) have been shown to have such poor moral fibre undermines the foundations of the relevant churches themselves? If someone I knew were to be proven a liar, I would certainly doubt the veracity of any other claims they made, especially when those claims were as bizarre and unlikely as the whole golden plates in the hat thing... You may not welcome input from an atheist here, but surely the fact that various popes (appointed via the workings of the Holy Spirit if we are to believe the Catholilc doctrine) and Joseph Smith (God’s prophet, according to the Mormons) have been shown to have such poor moral fibre undermines the foundations of the relevant churches themselves? If someone I knew were to be proven a liar, I would certainly doubt the veracity of any other claims they made, especially when those claims were as bizarre and unlikely as the whole golden plates in the hat thing…

]]> By: Aaron Hardy http://aaronhardy.com/religion/bridging-the-gap-between-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints-and-other-christian-churches/comment-page-1/#comment-20 Aaron Hardy Fri, 07 Sep 2007 14:50:29 +0000 http://intimateconversations.aaronhardy.com/uncategorized/bridging-the-gap-between-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints-and-other-christian-churches/#comment-20 Ben, I'm not positive, but I think Charles was arguing the same points that you just laid out. Like the title of the article says, we're bridging the gap--not trying to widen it. I explicitly mentioned in the article that my intent was not to prove that the LDS church is true or that any other church is wrong, but only to bring the reader's logic into a level playing field so they could find out on their own. In other words, I don't have any problem with someone pausing and considering whether assumptions about these men may be incorrect, I just don't want people to hear one negative story about Joseph Smith and run in fear from hearing more about the church. The truth of the gospel entails much more than one mortal human. I would ask the same for someone learning about the Catholic church, a political party, or ANYTHING where we should evaluate things further than just the most prominent public facade. So, on behalf of Charles, I think the answer to your question is he's basically saying, "If you believe in Catholicism but shun learning about the LDS church because you heard a story about how Joseph Smith did something evil, take a look at the leaders of your own church." While there are obviously some very notable differences between the two churches, at least we can bridge the gap to learning the basics. Ben, I’m not positive, but I think Charles was arguing the same points that you just laid out. Like the title of the article says, we’re bridging the gap–not trying to widen it. I explicitly mentioned in the article that my intent was not to prove that the LDS church is true or that any other church is wrong, but only to bring the reader’s logic into a level playing field so they could find out on their own. In other words, I don’t have any problem with someone pausing and considering whether assumptions about these men may be incorrect, I just don’t want people to hear one negative story about Joseph Smith and run in fear from hearing more about the church. The truth of the gospel entails much more than one mortal human. I would ask the same for someone learning about the Catholic church, a political party, or ANYTHING where we should evaluate things further than just the most prominent public facade. So, on behalf of Charles, I think the answer to your question is he’s basically saying, “If you believe in Catholicism but shun learning about the LDS church because you heard a story about how Joseph Smith did something evil, take a look at the leaders of your own church.” While there are obviously some very notable differences between the two churches, at least we can bridge the gap to learning the basics.

]]> By: Ben http://aaronhardy.com/religion/bridging-the-gap-between-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints-and-other-christian-churches/comment-page-1/#comment-19 Ben Wed, 29 Aug 2007 15:20:55 +0000 http://intimateconversations.aaronhardy.com/uncategorized/bridging-the-gap-between-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints-and-other-christian-churches/#comment-19 Charles - are you defending the Catholic church or the Mormon church or both? I don't understand your logic... Has it occurred to anybody that if we accept that we can't criticize a church for the failings of its leaders, then we can't hold the various Pope's failings against the Catholic church, or David Koresh's failings against the Branch Davidians, or L. Ron Hubbard's failings aginst the Scientologists? The fact of the matter is, if Joseph Smith married women in secret that were already married, and had sex with them, or if David Koresh thought that he was Jesus Christ, or L. Ron Hubbard taught that our evil thoughts are really spirits of people that were blown up in a giant H-bomb explosion - all concepts which, by the way, were taught by each of these men as divinely inspired - must we not pause and consider whether our assumptions about these men may be incorrect? Charles – are you defending the Catholic church or the Mormon church or both? I don’t understand your logic…

Has it occurred to anybody that if we accept that we can’t criticize a church for the failings of its leaders, then we can’t hold the various Pope’s failings against the Catholic church, or David Koresh’s failings against the Branch Davidians, or L. Ron Hubbard’s failings aginst the Scientologists?

The fact of the matter is, if Joseph Smith married women in secret that were already married, and had sex with them, or if David Koresh thought that he was Jesus Christ, or L. Ron Hubbard taught that our evil thoughts are really spirits of people that were blown up in a giant H-bomb explosion – all concepts which, by the way, were taught by each of these men as divinely inspired – must we not pause and consider whether our assumptions about these men may be incorrect?

]]> By: Charles Hargrove http://aaronhardy.com/religion/bridging-the-gap-between-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints-and-other-christian-churches/comment-page-1/#comment-18 Charles Hargrove Sat, 11 Aug 2007 03:51:19 +0000 http://intimateconversations.aaronhardy.com/uncategorized/bridging-the-gap-between-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints-and-other-christian-churches/#comment-18 If we want to touch on religious leaders who do things outside of their institutions' dogma, we could point out the various Catholic popes who were married and/or fathered children long after Augustine and his ideas of celibacy. People are not perfect, though God's word is! If we want to touch on religious leaders who do things outside of their institutions’ dogma, we could point out the various Catholic popes who were married and/or fathered children long after Augustine and his ideas of celibacy. People are not perfect, though God’s word is!

]]> By: Andy Wheatley http://aaronhardy.com/religion/bridging-the-gap-between-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints-and-other-christian-churches/comment-page-1/#comment-17 Andy Wheatley Fri, 03 Aug 2007 16:23:38 +0000 http://intimateconversations.aaronhardy.com/uncategorized/bridging-the-gap-between-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints-and-other-christian-churches/#comment-17 Brought up some really good points -- but like you said it really boils down to one point. F-A-I-T-H. 'Physical proof' doesn't 'prove' anything, true belief--the deep down soul altering belief, will never be spawned from seeing physical proof...will never inspire you past the human faults of your leaders or motivate you past the harsh criticisms from those who don't have the patience to learn for themselves and who don't understand the "why"... Like Paul said to the Hebrews (11:1) Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen Can I get an AMEN????? Brought up some really good points — but like you said it really boils down to one point. F-A-I-T-H. ‘Physical proof’ doesn’t ‘prove’ anything, true belief–the deep down soul altering belief, will never be spawned from seeing physical proof…will never inspire you past the human faults of your leaders or motivate you past the harsh criticisms from those who don’t have the patience to learn for themselves and who don’t understand the “why”…

Like Paul said to the Hebrews (11:1) Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen

Can I get an AMEN?????

]]> By: Ben http://aaronhardy.com/religion/bridging-the-gap-between-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints-and-other-christian-churches/comment-page-1/#comment-16 Ben Fri, 27 Jul 2007 18:29:51 +0000 http://intimateconversations.aaronhardy.com/uncategorized/bridging-the-gap-between-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints-and-other-christian-churches/#comment-16 I think you may have missed the point as to why people think Mormonism is a cult. In my experience, non-Mormons look at what they perceive as blind obedience to a totalitarian type theocracy, and the blood oaths that used to be in the temple prior to 1990, as well as the oaths of vengeance in the temple prior to 1910. Mormons often can't understand why people have a problem with the Mountain Meadows massacre, since in their view it was obviously not ordered by the church. However, speaking from the perspective of cults, it does raise some questions about how a local church leader could have asked the members to do something despicable, and they blindly obeyed without questioning. As a member of the LDS church, I must admit that these things are troubling, and it makes sense why people are nervous about the church. As far as the church being "Christian" - it all depends on how you define the term. If someone believes that Christ was a woman, or was a black man, would you still call them a Christian church? The problem is, mainstream Christians define the term very rigidly, and don't allow for a gospel that requires works for salvation, since Christ died for our sins. LDS members don't define the term "Christian" the same way. I suspect that gap may never be bridged, at least in the minds of mainstream "Christians". I have to sound off about the fault finding of church leaders - I agree with you that being nitpicky about it is ridiculous. However, when people find out that Joseph Smith married women in secret, was have intimate relations with them, while they were still married to their husbands, without telling them - that is not just being nitpicky. That is a problem that all Mormons have to face and answer for themselves if it was inspired by God or not, because there are few things that I can think of that are worse than that. I think you may have missed the point as to why people think Mormonism is a cult. In my experience, non-Mormons look at what they perceive as blind obedience to a totalitarian type theocracy, and the blood oaths that used to be in the temple prior to 1990, as well as the oaths of vengeance in the temple prior to 1910.

Mormons often can’t understand why people have a problem with the Mountain Meadows massacre, since in their view it was obviously not ordered by the church. However, speaking from the perspective of cults, it does raise some questions about how a local church leader could have asked the members to do something despicable, and they blindly obeyed without questioning.

As a member of the LDS church, I must admit that these things are troubling, and it makes sense why people are nervous about the church.

As far as the church being “Christian” – it all depends on how you define the term. If someone believes that Christ was a woman, or was a black man, would you still call them a Christian church? The problem is, mainstream Christians define the term very rigidly, and don’t allow for a gospel that requires works for salvation, since Christ died for our sins. LDS members don’t define the term “Christian” the same way. I suspect that gap may never be bridged, at least in the minds of mainstream “Christians”.

I have to sound off about the fault finding of church leaders – I agree with you that being nitpicky about it is ridiculous. However, when people find out that Joseph Smith married women in secret, was have intimate relations with them, while they were still married to their husbands, without telling them – that is not just being nitpicky. That is a problem that all Mormons have to face and answer for themselves if it was inspired by God or not, because there are few things that I can think of that are worse than that.

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